@Lana
Yes to all that, but the point for some is that segregation and stigmatisation of poor people. Poverty being a moral failing in their eyes.

Same people be objecting to free school breakfasts, free healthcare, etc, up over here too.

@Lana Also, like, why are we worried about that? The truly rich parents are paying more taxes and are likely paying for their kids lunch and like 3 other kids lunches. How is that even an argument?

Not that rich people should get more because they pay more taxes. No, that's dumb. Their kids will get exactly the same lunch as the poor kids. More that every one of those arguments hinges on a bunch of lower middle-class people who can barely afford to feed their own kids being super worried about spending a little bit more of the money that they mostly didn't pay for. It doesn't make any actual economic sense.

But it's a weird pride thing. I've listened to those arguments from my parents most of my life.

@Lana also if all kids are eating those meals, probably the quality of the meals would improve because rich parents wouldn't want their kids to eat bad stuff.

@Lana I've been told also it is much easier to convince people to vote to continue programs that they / their family / their friends are beneficiaries of, than programs that they are means tested out of.

@Lana
I donʼt know who said it, but it was something like 'Programmes only for the starving get starved.'.

@Lana "This is why the rich should pay more taxes."

@Lana I understand why they would say such a thing (doesn't feel fair), but they should know that they are about to let people go hungry (or without money, housing, healthcare etc) just because some rich people would benefit too.

@Lana 5. Of the kids born rich only the kids that take to the training in the parasitical bottom feeding that is required to be rich these days are the ones that will continue the oppression

Plenty of 'rich' kids are tortured to conform

@Lana
Oh, and if we manage to really tax the rich to pay for it we could just tax them a very little bit more to compensate for that ;-)

@Lana And it can be compensated by taxing their parents appropriately. (Progressive income tax, and at some point asset tax)

@Lana

We're working on it 🙂🤷‍♂️

https://www.gov.wales/universal-primary-free-school-meals-upfsm

@Lana
And it creates a common class where all children are treated equally by getting the same food, instead of some children getting exceptional treatment/food to teach them they're different/better

@Lana

When the well-off also use government services those services tend to be higher quality because wealthy people have more power and time to ensure that problems are fixed quickly and standards don't slip.

When the rich have their own services the quality of services rapidly diverges.

@Lana 5. Most rich kids go to private schools anyway.

@Lana 5. Kids of rich parents should be able to eat (or go to college, or have a roof over their heads, etc.) independent of whether their rich, likely-asshole parents approve of their life choices.

The best way to break the cycle of producing dynastic narcissist oligarchs is to ensure their children feel free to abandon them.

@Lana

All that, yes!

There's even more:
- Families just above the threshold and not entitled to meals would end up worse off than those just below, creating resentment.
- Families with variable income would feel penalised if they have a good month that gets them over the limit, stressing out if they get more jobs.
- And with a threshold comes possible penalties for incorect reporting... So people with variable income face an extra risk if making honest mistakes by a few dollars.

@Lana @tante Also joint lunches are good for social mixing at an age where everyone is in the same space (school).

@Lana If rich and poor kids are fed the same food, rich parents (who typically have resources, skills, connection, experience) will lean on the schools to provide decent food...

@Lana a day or two ago someone replied "but there's kids who don't want to (or can) eat school lunch!"

SO WHAT?

*I* was a kid that didn't want to eat school lunch in like 3 out of 5 days! It would still have made things cheaper for my parents in two out of 5 days?

AND it would have been another point on the "should I get cheap school lunch or buy a even cheaper pizza roll next door?"-list that would have pushed me toward the healthier option!

@Lana That's the reasoning behind most subsidies in Denmark - like 'børnepenge' - not being income-regulated but universal.

@Lana
Just to add another reason to feed all kids at school:

I used to work in an affluent public school. One day a teacher found a student doing his homework in the bathroom at 7am. Turned out his very rich dad was beating him and his mom regularly and he avoided going home when possible. He seldom ate breakfast. His friends were feeding him at lunch

I have my own stories of being a hungry kid in a rich town for different reasons

Kids aren’t rich. Their parents are.

@Lana @futurebird My one objection to the free school meals program here in #Minnesota is that it did not make all of the food in the schools free, although it is far better than the previous situation.

Just feed the kids.

@Lana rich kids go to private school.

@Lana a less obvious benefit is that kids of rich families afford to eat healthy (if the parents care about them) and will demand food in the schools to be healthy, too.

@Lana Good, nutritious, diverse, healthy food for everyone! What's not to like?

@Lana School here uses a cashless catering system to fix the stigma problem: Everyone pays by pressing thumb to reader, so there's no way to tell who is getting their free meal. We used to use RFID cards, but it was just wasting too much time and money constantly replacing them. Also there's a strange and very gender-specific problem in which girls routinely deface their badges because they are convinced the photo is hideously shameful.

@Lana The most efficient way to help everyone who needs it is to help everyone.

@Lana
This works if you replace "rich kids would eat free" with "rich people would get free health care" too. As soon as there is a two tier system the rich will ensure that their tier hoards all the resources at the expense of everyone else.

We know this in Australia, where the universal public health system has been eroded by decades of conservative and faux-liberal governments who have pushed people to take up private insurance, creating a two tier system

@Lana "If the rich might also benefit then the poor should not get this assistance" is an argument that the rich use to make sure the poor never get any assistance ever.

@Lana I am really confused about why it’s a problem if rich kids get free lunch too, but when we’re talking about school choice vouchers nobody is upset that rich kids are getting free private school.

In NH they determined something like 72% of the vouchers went to kids who were already attending a private school, now their rich parents don’t have to pay the school bill, the taxpayers will.

Private school tuition cost a lot more than free lunch. Why is free lunch for rich kids a problem but free tuition is not?

@Lana
Same with Universal Healthcare!