hhmx.de

· Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 04:17:29

If someone uses an LLM as a replacement for search, and the output they get is correct, this is just by chance.

Furthermore, a system that is right 95% of the time is arguably more dangerous tthan one that is right 50% of the time. People will be more likely to trust the output, and likely less able to fact check the 5%.

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Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 04:18:39

But even if the chatbots on offer were built around something other than LLMs, something that could reliably get the right answer, they'd still be a terrible technology for information access.

Setting things up so that you get "the answer" to your question cuts off the user's ability to do the sense-making that is critical to information literacy.

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Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 04:19:55

That sense-making includes refining the question, understanding how different sources speak to the question, and locating each source within the information landscape.

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Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 04:20:15

Imagine putting a medical query into a standard search engine and receiving a list of links including one to a local university medical center, one to WebMD, one to Dr. Oz, and one to an active forum for people with similar medical issues.

If you have the underlying links, you have the opportunity to evaluate the reliability and relevance of the information for your current query --- and also to build up your understanding of those sources over time.

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Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 04:20:38

If instead you get an answer from a chatbot, even if it is correct, you lose the opportunity for that growth in information literacy.

The case of the discussion forum has a further twist: Any given piece of information there is probably one you'd want to verify from other sources, but the opportunity to connect with people going through similar medical journeys is priceless.

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Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 04:20:55

Finally, the chatbots-as-search paradigm encourages us to just accept answers as given, especially when they are stated in terms that are both friendly and authoritative.

But now more than ever we all need to level-up our information access practices and hold high expectations regarding provenance --- i.e. citing of sources.

The chatbot interface invites you to just sit back and take the appealing-looking AI slop as if it were "information". Don't be that guy.

/fin

Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 07:29:34

@emilymbender Yeah. This is sort of how the WAIS system from Thinking Machines was meant to work, *forty years ago*. An interesting experiment at the time, but there's a reason it was supplanted by other tools.

Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 11:27:45

@emilymbender I would like to add that i have always been of the opinion that spouting orders in natural language has never been a good interface for querying any system, machine or human. There is a reason why ANSI standards begin with phrases like "in this document, MUST means exactly X". Rather, voice assistants earlier and LLM chatbots now are attempting to market to customers a "feeling", reproducing the social power dynamics of being a successful person who has underlings to order around.

Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 15:27:00

@elrohir For Internet standards, there's even a *separate* standard just for that.

That's RFC 2119 rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2119 which is referenced by a very significant portion of RFCs written since the late 1990s precisely because it provides clear, unambiguous definitions of requirement-level words, which is *very* useful in any technical standard.

(You might well already know this, but I imagine a lot of people especially outside of the field might not.)

@emilymbender

Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 11:31:00

@emilymbender people sending me LLM suggestions in a field where I would probably count as "Expert" and me having to explain that it doesn't work because of xyz has become a big part of my work day.
LLMs have helped me personally learn things adjacent to what I already know though. Or do tasks that I personally find tedious but can check the correctness quickly. 1/2

Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 12:44:10

@emilymbender @jqheywood

Very true. Sadly the industry has conditioned people (often students) that search results = understanding. You’re so right …. the CONTEXT of searching is often more informative (and accurate) than just the quick search result ‘answer.’

Answers alone =! wisdom, insight, or intelligence. As a consequence, many functional idiots are created each year - with obvious ramifications for humanity.

Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 13:42:49

@emilymbender provenance! Amen

Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 13:59:19

@emilymbender "hold high expectations regarding provenance --- i.e. citing of sources."

we all need to expect and demand that search results include links to the source and we should not boost any statement that do not include the source, images should include the creator and CC license

Info access is going to become critical. Just as land ownership in the middle ages was controlled by the wealthy, information access will be the next battle.

is more than how we vote!

Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 14:14:36

@emilymbender thank you for this great thread. I can see use cases where there is a correct answer, but those will be a smaller subset and require considerable curation. Perhaps they’d be appropriate on a site wide level, but not the entire vast internet

Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 14:38:16

@emilymbender For code, it's often trivially easy to confirm whether you got the 95% of correct answers or 5% of incorrect. You plug the snippet of code in, execute it, and see if it passes your test or not. Chatbots have revolutionized data retrieval for programming languages. A chatbot can surface an esoteric piece of documentation much faster than a developer can find it and present the documentation in a more understandable way, e.g. by presenting a worked example.

Föderation EN Mo 04.11.2024 15:32:24

@emilymbender I've been on the internet for 30 years. My bullshit detector is finely tuned, and I've learned to treat the majority of information as suspect until it can be corroborated by sources with good reputations. I fear for people who haven't developed that skill yet.