hhmx.de

Aral Balkan

Aral Balkan (@aral@mastodon.ar.al)

Föderation EN So 14.07.2024 23:34:32

Dear designers and developers,

The opposite of “Yes” is “No”, never “Maybe later.”

Simoto 🏴‍☠️

Simoto 🏴‍☠️ (@mrsimoto@kafeneio.social)

Föderation EN So 14.07.2024 23:35:24

@aral This is true for dating as well.

R F

R F (@r@social.up.edu.ph)

Föderation EN So 14.07.2024 23:36:37

@aral bwahahah how about "Yes" and "More information"?

James Drinkwater

James Drinkwater (@drinky@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN So 14.07.2024 23:40:22

@aral similarly the cookie that remembers I said no should not expire next week

liv (she/elle)

liv (she/elle) (@livvydun@mamot.fr)

Föderation EN So 14.07.2024 23:43:16

@aral
And "Refuse" is a better opposite to "Accept" than "Do not accept".

Marcin Wichary

Marcin Wichary (@mwichary@mastodon.online)

Föderation EN So 14.07.2024 23:50:17

@aral I disagree in that “Maybe later” became so common it helps understand the specific nature of the dialog. “No” is more generic and could apply to many other system prompts, but seeing “Maybe later” makes it easy to click without worrying and reading the rest.

Plus, a lot more characters means it’s easier to target.

Jens 🖤

Jens 🖤 (@jens@social.zete.tk)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 04:25:46

@mwichary
He didn's say that "Maybe Later" isn't a valid option, just that it isn't the opposite of "Yes" 😉
@aral

Aral Balkan

Aral Balkan (@aral@mastodon.ar.al)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 08:12:53

@mwichary Maybe later helps us understand that the people who implement it have an abuser’s/manipulator’s understanding of consent.

(Which is par for the course for Silicon Valley/Big Tech.)

MalkbethChickenPetter

MalkbethChickenPetter (@BrahmaBelarusian@todon.eu)

Föderation EN So 14.07.2024 23:51:29

@aral builders too... I can't count the number of times I've seen places - internet & in person alike- which say/claim to be fully disabled accessible & in fact have few to no accessibility features/aspects to them..... Because I don't believe anyone should "count" on this, if all they've got is a disabled sticker on a broken button for an electric door opener or in front a narrow parking spot 1/2 or more filled with potholes... Or online if they've just got a little note saying "call us with any accessibility needs you may have" on a site that can't load properly on smartphone - to the extent that not over 1/2 their phone number is even visible.🙃

Far better to tell me "no", so I can move away faster without injury, especially as sometimes - in person - I don't need the accomodations - so telling me what you have, without ridiculous claims of "fully" may actually get me to your business... instead of just seeing a mess of a parking spot in person, which has me driving away without even trying to park ...

Attaboy

Attaboy (@attaboy@tech.lgbt)

Föderation EN So 14.07.2024 23:58:35

@aral Microsoft asking me every single time I log in to switch from TOTP to their proprietary authenticator app. :blobcatfireeyes:

Lentävä Kalakukko

Lentävä Kalakukko (@pahoittelemme@mastodontti.fi)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 00:00:19

@aral Do you wish to punch the web developers in the face?

Yes / Maybe later

Molytov

Molytov (@molytov@infosec.exchange)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 04:29:17

@aral If web devs would like for me to not punch them in the face, they must first opt out of the 285 reasons for why I should punch them in the face.

Dzso

Dzso (@dzso@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 04:49:22

@aral Project Managers: "Wrong!"

TomKrajci 🇺🇦 🏳️‍🌈 🏳️‍⚧️

TomKrajci 🇺🇦 🏳️‍🌈 🏳️‍⚧️ (@KrajciTom@universeodon.com)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 06:52:20

@aral

When I worked overseas at an embassy, a local translator told me a joke: (the country was rather conservative by many Mastodon/Fediverse standards. Please don't shoot the joke teller/messenger.)

If a diplomat says yes, it means maybe.

If a diplomat says maybe, it means no.

If a diplomat says no...they aren't a diplomat.

If a lady says no, it means maybe.

If a lady says maybe, it means yes.

If a lady says yes...they aren't a lady.

===================

(Translation can be challenging when large cultural differences are added to the mix.)

An anecdote from a wise translator:

Sometimes Americans speak at overseas conferences. Americans love to start talks with a joke.

Sometimes the joke the American tells is insensitive to the local culture.

A wise translator, when hearing such an off-color joke, will not translate it. Instead, they will say to the audience in the local language: "Our esteemed American colleague has just told a joke. Please laugh!"

SabrinaDent

SabrinaDent (@sabrinadent@mastodon.ie)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 09:51:26

@KrajciTom @aral I don't get it. Please explain it to me.

TomKrajci 🇺🇦 🏳️‍🌈 🏳️‍⚧️

TomKrajci 🇺🇦 🏳️‍🌈 🏳️‍⚧️ (@KrajciTom@universeodon.com)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 14:31:40

@sabrinadent @aral

Aral made the point that yes means yes, no means no, and no and yes are opposites.

We have all been in situations where ostensibly simple words have different meanings because of who says them, or the context of the situation.

I mentioned a joke and anecdote from a translator that has to carefully dance between different languages and often different cultural values. Does yes (and no) simply and always mean yes? It depends.

Want another example?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bless_yo

Aral Balkan

Aral Balkan (@aral@mastodon.ar.al)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 11:19:00

@KrajciTom Yes, well, basically this comes down to a basic understanding of consent. The traditional lack of which is exemplified by the joke itself and traditional patriarchal culture with all of its toxicity/misogyny/chauvinism that, sadly, so many of us ourselves were brought up in and must do our best to unlearn.

TomKrajci 🇺🇦 🏳️‍🌈 🏳️‍⚧️

TomKrajci 🇺🇦 🏳️‍🌈 🏳️‍⚧️ (@KrajciTom@universeodon.com)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 14:44:35

@aral

FWIW, this translator joke was told to me when I was working in Uzbekistan a couple decades ago.

That's a former Soviet republic, and the Russian conservative influence was impossible to ignore.

Another anecdote.

I attended a class graduation of Uzbek military members that were learning English as a foreign language.

This took place at the Uzbek foreign language academy.

At the event I bumped into the French Air Attache.

They had an active exchange program with military officers, and recently his family back in France hosted some Uzbek army lieutenants.

One day while travelling about in a city in France, they passed a group of protestors on a street corner. The protestors were holding signs while standing on the sidewalk. No bull horn, no shouting. No fights breaking out with citizens or angry counter protestors.

As soon as they Uzbek officers saw this, they became very angry.

"You never see such protests in Uzbekistan! We know how to take care of such problems!"

draeath

draeath (@draeath@social.sdf.org)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 07:11:13

@aral "no" is already implicitly available: leave the site, close and remove the application, or return the product.

But fuck em anyway, this "maybe later" language is infuriating.

Michal Bryxí 🌱

Michal Bryxí 🌱 (@MichalBryxi@veganism.social)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 07:27:06

@aral I see it unlikely that this trend emerged from the head of a developer. And I see it likely that in many "UX review" meetings there was some developer trying to question such pattern.

Sim

Sim (@0xSim@hachyderm.io)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 07:54:59

@aral Dear users, we developers are truly sorry but we're often not the ones who decide to implement obtuse or dark pattern features :(

Aral Balkan

Aral Balkan (@aral@mastodon.ar.al)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 08:11:04

@0xSim You can always refuse to implement it.

Sim

Sim (@0xSim@hachyderm.io)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 08:46:17

@aral I can always express my point of view, but a "maybe later" button is not a hill I'm willing to die on at my job. Gotta pick your battles.

8Petros [2late 2die young]_

8Petros [2late 2die young]_ (@8petros@petroskowo.pl)

Föderation EN Mo 15.07.2024 08:48:33

@aral Just to be on the safe side, IMO opposite to yes is everything else.

Cameron Dutro

Cameron Dutro (@camertron@ruby.social)

Föderation EN Di 16.07.2024 05:08:37

@aral lol you must not have children

Aral Balkan

Aral Balkan (@aral@mastodon.ar.al)

Föderation EN Di 16.07.2024 12:26:11

@camertron More to the point, I don’t believe in treating adults like children.

Cameron Dutro

Cameron Dutro (@camertron@ruby.social)

Föderation EN Mi 17.07.2024 17:34:23

@aral hahaha for sure, I was deliberately misinterpreting your toot for comedic effect 😆