hhmx.de

Neil Brown

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 08:08:41

When it comes to digital stuff, if you can’t

  • download and store it
  • DRM-free
  • in a portable / open format
  • with no phone-home check
  • for entirely offline enjoyment

you’ve paid for an unstable rental of indeterminate duration, no matter how it was described to you.

Jakob (Jack/Jackie)

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 08:37:52

@neil true!
There is one exception I make to this: Steam Games.
Why? Because I do have a local copy of the games and in case Steam ceases to exist it is trivial (and well known how to) bypass the Steam "DRM" (you just have to replace the steam client library in the games folder by a reimplementation).
But for music, movies and books all existent DRM systems are *really* annoying. If I can't get it DRM free I won't buy it.

Ike

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 08:52:27

@jakob @neil

Yeah Ive been thinking about Steam a bit lately and its eventual enshittification. GOG seems like its the way to go, but by its namesake, the games sold there are "old" and will never see releases feom certain publishers there.

For now, Steam is ok, but per the post, its "indeterminate duration" for how long before it enshitifies itself.

Krzesław

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 10:14:47

@ike @jakob @neil Valve is an exception in the tech company world in that that it is not a publicly traded company, but a private-owned one - thus it is not required to make profit and bend over to appease stockholders.
Not sure how naive I am but I want to believe that the enshittification will not happen at least as long as gaben's in charge

Chewie

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 17:13:22

@ike GOG isn't just old games, there are new indie ones on there too:
gog.com/en/games?tags=indie&re

But yes, there are some games I bet you will never see on there, sadly.

econads

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 18:29:50

@ike
It started out like that, as reimplemented classic games but it's moved on. We run both.

@jakob @neil

Nitin Khanna

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 11:49:06

@jakob @neil do you have a local copy of all the Steam Games you have ever paid for?

Jakob (Jack/Jackie)

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 11:59:35

@nitinkhanna @neil not all of them but the ones I really like. I plan on having a steam library on my nas as an archive to increase that collection

Nitin Khanna

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 12:43:20

@neil @jakob that makes a lot of sense!

ಚಿರಾಗ್ 🌹✊🏾Ⓥ🌱🇵🇸 (he/him)

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 14:53:37

@jakob @neil I used to be hardcore about ebooks that way, but then we started running out of room for physical books. Since I have a Kobo Libra, it's trivial to break the DRM on Kobo ebooks using Calibre, so that's my compromise at this point for ebooks I can't get without DRM.

Paul Evans

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 09:01:14

@neil I like for that. Everything I buy there lets me download in Vorbis or FLAC and has all those nice properties

Rupert Reynolds

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 11:42:14

@leonerd @neil Seconded. My last Bandcamp download was from Made By John, .flac meaning there is no DRM.

It's so refreshing to have choices that I paid a bit extra :-)

Cory Doctorow has DRM-free audiobooks and stuff.

mkj

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 16:07:34

@RupertReynolds @leonerd Yes. Bandcamp for indie music; 7digital, Qobuz for more mainstream music. (7digital's downside is that a lot of what they offer is only available as high-quality MP3, so you are already on a lossy first generation by the time you get it, limiting future options.) And of course physical CDs (including pre-owned) which can be copied losslessly onto the computer and then losslessly compressed while adding album and track metadata.

Similar for other types of media.

@neil

Rupert Reynolds

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 23:11:21

@mkj @leonerd @neil I still buy CDs, often the originals before they were remastered (sometimes badly).

I was ripping CDs to .flac with embedded cover pics and track data (and the most wanted DVDs to .mkv) once or twice a week for 10 years :-)

I hoped storage costs would come down in time, and they did, so now the whole lot is on MicroSD in my phone, plus somewhere safe even if the discs get lost :-)

Madagascar_Sky

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 11:03:56

@NicoYozone @neil

Bless their hearts. I don't know if they are making enough money doing this or not, but they are trying their best to save old games from death and obscurity.

They recently redoubled their efforts through making sure all their old games work flawlessly on new systems.

"Time is erasing the games that shaped you. Forgotten, incompatible, unplayable."

gog.com/en/gog-preservation-pr

ghostdancer

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 14:37:13

@NicoYozone Add itch.io to the DRM Free team. @neil

Madagascar_Sky

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 10:59:06

@neil

Yeah, I completely agree.

Europeans, you all have once in a lifetime chance to save one form of digital art, Games! For everyone!

Currently game publishers can take away your access to games when they shut down authentication servers.

This EU bill aims to give users the ability to keep using the assets they paid for offline, on their own computers.

Sign up and save a bit of your culture! Brought to you by EU MPs and Gaming fanatics.

stopkillinggames.com/eci

GWhit

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 11:34:55

@neil If you are using anything digital that is stored on physical media or that interacts with an operating system, even if you "own" it, it's a rental. The only reliable long term solutions are analog (printed books, vinyl records) or subscription, where the vendor is maintaining the access (development, patching, cyber security, hosting all cost money). Hence the migration to subscriptions for most digital products.

Methylzero

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 12:21:04

@GraemeWhitley @neil IDK, audio CDs are definitely not analog and I cannot see how they would be rental.

GWhit

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 12:37:10

@Methylzero @neil True. Some CDs rot a lot faster than print and vinyl - prone to oxidation, which was why I left them out. Point taken.

noodle

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 13:32:42

@GraemeWhitley @neil
Why do you think I can't maintain my own access to digital media I have copies of? I still use software from the 90s without issue.

Andreas, DJ3EI, he/him

Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 01:20:18

"If you are using anything digital that is stored on physical media ... even if you "own"  it, it's a rental."

Like, for one example, the digi pictures I myself took, kids, vacation, the usual stuff - and store on various physical hard drives - in what sense do I rent them? From whom?

Is there any storage that doesn't use some physical medium at the end of the day, for that matter?

@GraemeWhitley @neil

GWhit

Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 02:20:42

@dj3ei @neil I mean that the half life of digital media is relatively short. Even if you think it's permanent, it's unlikely to be readable in 30-40 years.

Björn 💚 Starkimarm

Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 12:03:59

@GraemeWhitley

Archiving digital media is a different proces than for analog. Multiple copies, test and/or copy regularily on new media.
Yes, that's more work, but also with better quality.

@dj3ei @neil

Andreas, DJ3EI, he/him

Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 12:35:02

Yes, digital is more work and much less convenient.

For a telling example, compare the straightforward analog process en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_sp with the cumbersome copying of a digital artifact from one storage technology falling into disuse to its successor.

Also, sharing and duplication of memorabilia to give it to different branches of family is so much easier with physical, e.g., pictures, than with their digital equivalents.

@Starkimarm @GraemeWhitley @neil

Björn 💚 Starkimarm

Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 12:38:01

@dj3ei

Either I don't understand you or you didn't understand me. This sounds like snarky sarcasm when I basically agreed with you.

@GraemeWhitley @neil

Andreas, DJ3EI, he/him

Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 12:41:49

It was intended to be sarcasm, and I was reacting to the "digital is more work". The rest we agree, yes.

@Starkimarm @GraemeWhitley @neil

Björn 💚 Starkimarm

Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 12:52:19

@dj3ei

Ah, ok. My thought was that you can put analog media in a box for 30-50 years and it will be somewhat usable (I'm in the process of scanning my childhood photos at the moment...) while reading files after 50 years requires usually more effort.

If one really intents to store media for much longer (or without degradation), analog can get arbitrarily complex, of course.

@GraemeWhitley @neil

Andreas, DJ3EI, he/him

Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 12:39:42

Was given a 50 year old analog picture the other day. The owner was about to trash it, as she did with many others same age, as the colors had faded unfavorably.

@GraemeWhitley @neil

sijmen

Föderation · Mi 26.02.2025 11:35:26

@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk this is why I no longer pay for ebooks. it's practically impossible to get them DRM free

yes, I could remove the DRM after jumping through many hoops, but why would I if I don't have to do that when I don't pay?

Mik3y

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 12:06:50

@neil that why I pirate

Nazo

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 12:38:00

@neil I have never and will never understand how people are comfortable with the fact that their Internet connection can just have a bad day and then suddenly so much of their content is just gone until it feels like working again.

Lukasz Pozniak (Lukas Rox)

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 12:49:32

@neil that's why I love gog.com: you can download all your game installers for a full-offline experience and without DRM

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 13:09:09

@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

And, quite frequently, you've paid as much for that rental as you would have for a physical copy (that the seller didn't have to manufacture, warehouse or ship).

Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC

Föderation DE Mi 26.02.2025 15:07:29

@neil You absolutely can do all those things if you don't care if it's legal or not.

maswan

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 15:32:51

@neil
Yup, the book purchase process is finalized when there is a drm-free epub in my calibre bookshelf at home. Shops that make this too difficult (e.g. amazon) don't get my business.

trillytrill

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 15:48:20

@neil
SEE, THIS IS WHAT I KEEP SAYING!
Call me an old dinosaur, but I friggin remember when you just BOUGHT a program or a file and could use it without needing a subscription for the program or worrying about the company yoinking the file from you! It's ridiculous! :bugcatfire:

Neil Brown

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 15:49:06

@trillytrill

Call me an old dinosaur

You are an old dinosaur!

And completely correct :)

mav :happy_blob:

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 15:52:57

Seth Galitzer

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 15:58:04

@neil 1000% agree

Macaco Capoeira

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 16:08:35

@neil people still pay for software?

Neil Brown

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 16:16:08

@macacator Based on the significant number of console sales each year, yes?

Macaco Capoeira

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 16:31:11

@neil oh console sales? My apologies, I thought you were referring to software in general.

Neil Brown

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 16:33:24

@macacator My original toot was much broader - all digital stuff! I was really thinking books and films.

Macaco Capoeira

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 16:35:44

@neil I see, hence the question lol.

David Webb

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 16:22:50

@neil

And if you can't fine non DRM things - as Louis Rossman says, piracy is justified.

lemgandi

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 17:08:07

@neil What could Possibly go Wrong?

ProfessorBoop

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 17:29:21

@neil the only TRUE ownership is 🏴‍☠️

KB Sez

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 17:32:46

@neil

Even if you “purchase” a digital product like a movie, TV show or game from a service, they can take it away from you at any time without notice or recourse.

The Only True Religion Is Physical Media….

alcinnz

Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 02:00:38

@kbsez @neil Or the filesystem, that works too. If you know what you're doing enough to steer away from what the big publishers want...

It works for me! I'm getting quite a collection!

Binary Large Octopus

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 18:49:17

@neil This is why I love libro.fm. It's one of the fairest business models I've seen so far.

Bowreality

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 21:24:57

@bloc @neil 100% I wish they would do ebooks as well

msdeibel

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 19:24:02

@neil
Liberated my audible library today with the help of .
getlibation.com/
@realn2s

David

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 19:54:07

@msdeibel @neil @realn2s I assume it’s just a matter of time before Amazon stops allowing Audible downloads, too.

The Lady of the Black Feather

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 20:35:41

@neil

I have returned to physical media.
Books that were printed, and records that were pressed.
I keep them at home.
They are mine.


n8chz 🩎

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 21:08:22

@neil I don't know of anything that isn't open source that satisfies more than two of the above.

Bowreality

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 21:22:00

@neil I just found Libro.fm and I am so happy. I never bought audiobooks because “rental”

Low Ad Lib

Föderation EN Mi 26.02.2025 22:03:22

@neil
Aside from flat files, I want more software to be designed to be "local-first". Ideally, something that is open source and stores things primarily on an OS's filesystem, as that offers infinite flexibility as to how you want to save and retrieve data.

Maybe there's a web native way to do this, but I still want to be able to work offline, and not rely on black box cloud services so much for sync and config.

Björn 💚 Starkimarm

Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 12:12:01

@neil
Well, I'm some kind of a hoarder, but that makes for a really robust approach: Buy the physical copy for the shelf, then obtain* a DRM-free digital version to put on the local server for actual consumption.

*
- audio/video: rip the disc
- books: buy the bundle (basically nobody offers that) or head to your genesis library
- games: yeah, I just use Steam (because the replay value is often not THAT great)