Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:36:26
«How much does Google pay you to lose users?» is my new favorite question to @mozilla
Credit goes to @Uilebheist
https://polyglot.city/@Uilebheist/111575246123555642
Alessio 
(@dottorblaster@fosstodon.org)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:41:19
@oblomov @mozilla @Uilebheist what are you using at the moment? I’m struggling to find an alternative but I have to say it is hard not to see where questions like these come from
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:46:20
I use #Firefox primarily at the moment, because it's still the least worst around, but that's not going to last for long, especially with @mozilla's complete inability to actually investing in it to help preserve the open web instead of chasing other questionable endeavors. If didn't rely so heavily on #Blink/#Chromium I would be using @Vivaldi instead, or maybe #OtterBrowser https://otter-browser.org/ if it was a bit more mature.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:49:01
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi I used otter browser for a while, unfortunately they switched from webkit to webengine and in the process "forgot" that many people actually need to be able to set their own CSS to be able to see things. SOmething Mozilla also would rather not support from what I can tell.
I now use PaleMoon. 30 seconds to configure it so it's compatible with my eyes as compared to at least 30 hours for each version of firefox.
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:53:45
@Uilebheist @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi
FWIW, I'm pretty sure Otter can be built with both WebKit and WebEngine support
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:55:13
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi Webkit support is deprecated and I think has been removed at some point. At least last time I tried, it wouldn't work with it.
And the webengine backend had all the CSS options which worked fine with webkit - but ignored them
(for comparison, Qutebrowser, which also uses webengine, has no problems with user CSS so it's definitely an otter issue, not a webengine one).
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:02:12
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi In summary, the mainstream browsers are:
chrome - unusable piece of excrement
edge, chromium, etc - variations on chrome and just as bad
firefox - almost as bad as chrome and catching up with it, aiming to be even worse
otherwise we have (in alphabetic order):
otter
palemoon
vivaldi
all with their various good and bad things but at least more good than bad.
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:05:10
@12thRITS @Uilebheist @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi
No. Just … no.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:06:34
@oblomov @12thRITS @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi The whole point of otter was initially to try to preserve the best bits of opera after opera became yet another variation on chrome.
... and frankly I tried to install opera and the first thing it did was to put a completely blank page on my screen with just an "OK" button. I deleted is rather than agreeing to a blank cheque to them (edit - I mean the opera after they became a variation on chrome).
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:13:52
@oblomov
Maybe I should give @Vivaldi another try... I looked at it years ago and it just wasn't ready, but years could make a lot of difference.
Anything I need to know before I try? Like how hard it is to stop it blasting its own choice of colours in my face and instead let me pick what I need? (when I tried this seemed to be impossible).
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:17:35
@Uilebheist @Vivaldi honestly no idea, I don't spend much time on customization these days. It can be configured for a dark mode though, and it has a theme editor, so it probably can be customized at least to some extent.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Do 14.12.2023 00:25:02
@oblomov Looks like it'll need a lot more configuration than PaleMoon just to make it usable. Can't find a way to apply a single CSS to every site, and while having different settings for each site may be great, it's a lot of effort when all I want is mostly the same. It doesn't help that the preferences don't show in the colours I selected but in other ones which don't appear to be in the theme editor so the setting may be there but my eyes will never find it.
@Vivaldi
Vivaldi (@Vivaldi@social.vivaldi.net)
Föderation EN Do 14.12.2023 22:22:58
If you don't like the browser to change the accent color based on the websites you're viewing in the active tab, you can disable "Accent from page" in the theme editor.
To modify website CSS, you'll need to use an Extension, which you can get from the Chrome Web Store.
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:53:45
@Uilebheist @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi
FWIW, I'm pretty sure Otter can be built with both WebKit and WebEngine support
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:55:13
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi Webkit support is deprecated and I think has been removed at some point. At least last time I tried, it wouldn't work with it.
And the webengine backend had all the CSS options which worked fine with webkit - but ignored them
(for comparison, Qutebrowser, which also uses webengine, has no problems with user CSS so it's definitely an otter issue, not a webengine one).
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:02:12
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi In summary, the mainstream browsers are:
chrome - unusable piece of excrement
edge, chromium, etc - variations on chrome and just as bad
firefox - almost as bad as chrome and catching up with it, aiming to be even worse
otherwise we have (in alphabetic order):
otter
palemoon
vivaldi
all with their various good and bad things but at least more good than bad.
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:05:10
@12thRITS @Uilebheist @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi
No. Just … no.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:06:34
@oblomov @12thRITS @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi The whole point of otter was initially to try to preserve the best bits of opera after opera became yet another variation on chrome.
... and frankly I tried to install opera and the first thing it did was to put a completely blank page on my screen with just an "OK" button. I deleted is rather than agreeing to a blank cheque to them (edit - I mean the opera after they became a variation on chrome).
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:13:52
@oblomov
Maybe I should give @Vivaldi another try... I looked at it years ago and it just wasn't ready, but years could make a lot of difference.
Anything I need to know before I try? Like how hard it is to stop it blasting its own choice of colours in my face and instead let me pick what I need? (when I tried this seemed to be impossible).
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:17:35
@Uilebheist @Vivaldi honestly no idea, I don't spend much time on customization these days. It can be configured for a dark mode though, and it has a theme editor, so it probably can be customized at least to some extent.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Do 14.12.2023 00:25:02
@oblomov Looks like it'll need a lot more configuration than PaleMoon just to make it usable. Can't find a way to apply a single CSS to every site, and while having different settings for each site may be great, it's a lot of effort when all I want is mostly the same. It doesn't help that the preferences don't show in the colours I selected but in other ones which don't appear to be in the theme editor so the setting may be there but my eyes will never find it.
@Vivaldi
Vivaldi (@Vivaldi@social.vivaldi.net)
Föderation EN Do 14.12.2023 22:22:58
If you don't like the browser to change the accent color based on the websites you're viewing in the active tab, you can disable "Accent from page" in the theme editor.
To modify website CSS, you'll need to use an Extension, which you can get from the Chrome Web Store.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:49:01
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi I used otter browser for a while, unfortunately they switched from webkit to webengine and in the process "forgot" that many people actually need to be able to set their own CSS to be able to see things. SOmething Mozilla also would rather not support from what I can tell.
I now use PaleMoon. 30 seconds to configure it so it's compatible with my eyes as compared to at least 30 hours for each version of firefox.
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:53:45
@Uilebheist @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi
FWIW, I'm pretty sure Otter can be built with both WebKit and WebEngine support
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:55:13
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi Webkit support is deprecated and I think has been removed at some point. At least last time I tried, it wouldn't work with it.
And the webengine backend had all the CSS options which worked fine with webkit - but ignored them
(for comparison, Qutebrowser, which also uses webengine, has no problems with user CSS so it's definitely an otter issue, not a webengine one).
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:02:12
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi In summary, the mainstream browsers are:
chrome - unusable piece of excrement
edge, chromium, etc - variations on chrome and just as bad
firefox - almost as bad as chrome and catching up with it, aiming to be even worse
otherwise we have (in alphabetic order):
otter
palemoon
vivaldi
all with their various good and bad things but at least more good than bad.
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:05:10
@12thRITS @Uilebheist @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi
No. Just … no.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:06:34
@oblomov @12thRITS @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi The whole point of otter was initially to try to preserve the best bits of opera after opera became yet another variation on chrome.
... and frankly I tried to install opera and the first thing it did was to put a completely blank page on my screen with just an "OK" button. I deleted is rather than agreeing to a blank cheque to them (edit - I mean the opera after they became a variation on chrome).
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:13:52
@oblomov
Maybe I should give @Vivaldi another try... I looked at it years ago and it just wasn't ready, but years could make a lot of difference.
Anything I need to know before I try? Like how hard it is to stop it blasting its own choice of colours in my face and instead let me pick what I need? (when I tried this seemed to be impossible).
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:17:35
@Uilebheist @Vivaldi honestly no idea, I don't spend much time on customization these days. It can be configured for a dark mode though, and it has a theme editor, so it probably can be customized at least to some extent.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Do 14.12.2023 00:25:02
@oblomov Looks like it'll need a lot more configuration than PaleMoon just to make it usable. Can't find a way to apply a single CSS to every site, and while having different settings for each site may be great, it's a lot of effort when all I want is mostly the same. It doesn't help that the preferences don't show in the colours I selected but in other ones which don't appear to be in the theme editor so the setting may be there but my eyes will never find it.
@Vivaldi
Vivaldi (@Vivaldi@social.vivaldi.net)
Föderation EN Do 14.12.2023 22:22:58
If you don't like the browser to change the accent color based on the websites you're viewing in the active tab, you can disable "Accent from page" in the theme editor.
To modify website CSS, you'll need to use an Extension, which you can get from the Chrome Web Store.
Alessio (@dottorblaster@fosstodon.org)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:41:19
@oblomov @mozilla @Uilebheist what are you using at the moment? I’m struggling to find an alternative but I have to say it is hard not to see where questions like these come from
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:46:20
I use #Firefox primarily at the moment, because it's still the least worst around, but that's not going to last for long, especially with @mozilla's complete inability to actually investing in it to help preserve the open web instead of chasing other questionable endeavors. If didn't rely so heavily on #Blink/#Chromium I would be using @Vivaldi instead, or maybe #OtterBrowser https://otter-browser.org/ if it was a bit more mature.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:49:01
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi I used otter browser for a while, unfortunately they switched from webkit to webengine and in the process "forgot" that many people actually need to be able to set their own CSS to be able to see things. SOmething Mozilla also would rather not support from what I can tell.
I now use PaleMoon. 30 seconds to configure it so it's compatible with my eyes as compared to at least 30 hours for each version of firefox.
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:53:45
@Uilebheist @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi
FWIW, I'm pretty sure Otter can be built with both WebKit and WebEngine support
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 22:55:13
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi Webkit support is deprecated and I think has been removed at some point. At least last time I tried, it wouldn't work with it.
And the webengine backend had all the CSS options which worked fine with webkit - but ignored them
(for comparison, Qutebrowser, which also uses webengine, has no problems with user CSS so it's definitely an otter issue, not a webengine one).
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:02:12
@oblomov @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi In summary, the mainstream browsers are:
chrome - unusable piece of excrement
edge, chromium, etc - variations on chrome and just as bad
firefox - almost as bad as chrome and catching up with it, aiming to be even worse
otherwise we have (in alphabetic order):
otter
palemoon
vivaldi
all with their various good and bad things but at least more good than bad.
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:05:10
@12thRITS @Uilebheist @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi
No. Just … no.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:06:34
@oblomov @12thRITS @dottorblaster @mozilla @Vivaldi The whole point of otter was initially to try to preserve the best bits of opera after opera became yet another variation on chrome.
... and frankly I tried to install opera and the first thing it did was to put a completely blank page on my screen with just an "OK" button. I deleted is rather than agreeing to a blank cheque to them (edit - I mean the opera after they became a variation on chrome).
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:13:52
@oblomov
Maybe I should give @Vivaldi another try... I looked at it years ago and it just wasn't ready, but years could make a lot of difference.
Anything I need to know before I try? Like how hard it is to stop it blasting its own choice of colours in my face and instead let me pick what I need? (when I tried this seemed to be impossible).
Oblomov (@oblomov@sociale.network)
Föderation EN Mi 13.12.2023 23:17:35
@Uilebheist @Vivaldi honestly no idea, I don't spend much time on customization these days. It can be configured for a dark mode though, and it has a theme editor, so it probably can be customized at least to some extent.
Uilebheist (@Uilebheist@polyglot.city)
Föderation EN Do 14.12.2023 00:25:02
@oblomov Looks like it'll need a lot more configuration than PaleMoon just to make it usable. Can't find a way to apply a single CSS to every site, and while having different settings for each site may be great, it's a lot of effort when all I want is mostly the same. It doesn't help that the preferences don't show in the colours I selected but in other ones which don't appear to be in the theme editor so the setting may be there but my eyes will never find it.
@Vivaldi
Vivaldi (@Vivaldi@social.vivaldi.net)
Föderation EN Do 14.12.2023 22:22:58
If you don't like the browser to change the accent color based on the websites you're viewing in the active tab, you can disable "Accent from page" in the theme editor.
To modify website CSS, you'll need to use an Extension, which you can get from the Chrome Web Store.
