hhmx.de

Coles Street Pothole 💀

Föderation EN Fr 02.08.2024 20:20:25

@mekkaokereke @ddritter
Thank you! 🙏 This is the best, most concise explanation of how Mastodon's reply filters—which are meant to be a form of protection—can actually be weaponized to enable racist abuse.

See that third option below, "Followers only"? Someone with a bunch of racist followers could reply with racist abuse and only the victim and the racists see it.

Public

Visible for all

Unlisted

Visible for all, but opted-out of discovery features a Followers only

Visible for followers only @ Mentioned people only

Visible for mentioned users only

(Medien: 1)

Jon

Föderation · Fr 02.08.2024 23:16:56

And, there's another insidious way the problem comes up. Instance admins and moderators can "limit" another instance , as an alternative to defederating an instance which has some racists but also a lot of people who aren't racist (like mastodon.social for example). Limiting an instance means that you don't get notified when tagged in a reply from that instance (and a few other things). That's good for avoiding harassing notifications ... but is also a way that the situation Mekka describes can come up even with public and unlisted posts.

But wait, there's more. The way federation works, you generally don't see posts from people who aren't followed by anybody on your instance. If nobody on your instance wants to follow racists, good for them, but it also means that you and everybody else on your instance won't see the posts from people on that racist instance harassing Mekka (or other Black people) so can't report them.

@ColesStreetPothole@weatherishappening.network @mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io @ddritter@paquita.masto.host

Rachel Greenham

Föderation EN Sa 03.08.2024 00:09:30

@ColesStreetPothole @mekkaokereke @ddritter @benroyce if that's the behaviour it's also misnamed. Followers only should *mean* followers only.

i want to think it's a bug. because it's mis-named, as if the mismatch between name and function isn't deliberate. Maybe submit it as a simple bug report on that basis. 😅

Ben Royce 🇺🇦

Föderation EN Sa 03.08.2024 00:16:54

@StrangeNoises @ColesStreetPothole @mekkaokereke @ddritter

it's because the person replied to is mentioned in the post. if you're mentioned, you can see any post, no matter how marked

Coles Street Pothole 💀

Föderation EN Sa 03.08.2024 00:32:23

@benroyce @StrangeNoises @mekkaokereke @ddritter Yep, person replied to sees it, and all the replier's followers. In a nice world, that's a nice feature, but we don't live in a nice world.

Dana Fried

Föderation EN Sa 03.08.2024 04:04:50

@ColesStreetPothole @benroyce @StrangeNoises @mekkaokereke @ddritter this is a prime example of the folks creating a feature failing to ask the all-important question, "WW4D?" (i.e. "what would 4chan do with this?")

Because in retrospect it's an extremely obvious avenue for abuse, and anyone who was thinking about exploitability would have seen it immediately.

Ulrike Hahn

Föderation EN Sa 03.08.2024 06:27:26

@tess @ColesStreetPothole @benroyce @StrangeNoises @mekkaokereke @ddritter I’m not sure I see the problem lying with the feature itself. The moderation goal has to be that a) Mekka doesn’t receive such a post in the first place and b) if he does that content is immediately removed and that person removed from the network.

Lot’s of people seeing the racist content doesn’t seem intrinsically desirable and it feels like a system failure if it’s necessary

—>

Renaud Chaput

Föderation EN Sa 03.08.2024 09:51:39

@tess disclaimer: I am not trying to minimize the issue or excuse anything.
As far as I know (I was not involved with the Fediverse at the time) those features were designed for safety. People wanted a way to restrict their audience, to be less targeted. But this is now weaponized in another way, that was (maybe) not thought about at the time. Safety is very hard, decentralized is very hard, the combination is a nightmare 😞

@ColesStreetPothole @benroyce @StrangeNoises @mekkaokereke @ddritter

Renaud Chaput

Föderation EN Sa 03.08.2024 09:55:12

@tess and I must assure you that (at least in the last 18 months, cant know before I started) safety is thought about for every feature, and lany things are dropped because we fail to find a way to prevent abuse. And sometimes we think we did good, then someone find a way to abuse it somehow, and we get back to the drawing board. But we care, a lot.

@ColesStreetPothole @benroyce @StrangeNoises @mekkaokereke @ddritter