You can always host your own homeserver with synapse & theres one alternative I forgot the name.

@daniel to be fair, while I agree with your other points, I'm also pretty sure (with apologies to the other client authors, who suffer from the normal lack of funding/participation, not their fault) that Conversations is the only app that supports XMPP that has a decent UI too. I think I would honestly take one client per platform that was "OK" over that.

@daniel

> It’s incredibly sad that we’ve lost the open, federated team chat space

This should be the end of the message.

XMPP as it stands in terms of server and client software is not up to par either, regarding team communication.

@daniel 15 years ago or so I was looking for a decent web client for XMPP to offer to my users. I think there was or still is a major lack of such web clients. Haven't checked for many years now.

@daniel "OK" is an overstatement

@daniel would you like to EEE matrix? we can do that.

@daniel Are you saying you should have wan or are you saying #XMPP is even worse ?

@daniel Would you be willing to elaborate some? I recently deployed a matrix server for personal use and it seems viable to me? Genuinely curious to understand your perspective.

@daniel XMPP never had that space. It was vacant and filled with (not really federated but at least open) IRC until Matrix tried to strong-arm itself into the niche with their terrible IRC bridge (a poisioned gift that many IRC networks swallowed).

I think there are some interesting new efforts like GC3 and Prose in that space, but XMPP has a long way to go in that regard.

@daniel As a concept a messaging system built around a database could be valuable for niche uses, but most ‘real’ IM conversations I encounter are (unfortunately) on WhatsApp, and feature potholes, lost pets, family concerns and fun, and so on, None of these need to be protected against an adversary who might want to re-write their history, and were it not for the ‘But everyone uses WhatsApp’ would work as well on XMPP. There may be (I have not looked into it) similar concerns related to traffic analysis in Matrix as there are in WhatsApp

Synapse is entirely viable and FOSS under AGPL. The standard is indeed truly open, despite the FUD. Protocols don't have UX, but just as Conversations has great UX for XMPP, there are several clients which have great UX for Matrix. Perhaps focus on improving XMPP rather than complaining about Matrix? 😘