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· Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 15:24:22 @gsymon @ErikvanStraten @Free_Press Afganistan comes to mind, and Iraq almost, so let's say 1½ during the past 25 years. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 15:36:42 @gsymon : but that is not my point. NATO is probably the strongest military organization in the world, and Russia used to be the primary opponent of most members. Even if NATO were a "decent" justice-abiding organization, things fully depend on perspective. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 15:56:01 @ErikvanStraten @iju @Free_Press Well, for me the perspective is simple.. They have a gun. Are they shooting people? NATO = No. Putin = Yes. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 16:00:11 @gsymon : for me the perspective that the western world helped Israel to level Gaza and to commit genocide is simple too. But *A LOT* of people look at this from another perspective. Who is right and who is wrong? Why? |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 16:08:41 @ErikvanStraten @iju @Free_Press Well, it's intensely emotional stuff, because it's such tragically awful destruction. I'm 67. I can remember listening to Gaza reports on BBC radio 4 from probably ~8yrs old. (Radio4 was always on in the kitchen). It was endless. On and on. Nothing has changed. It is tribal fighting by profoundly indoctrinated people. You cannot apply reason. As to who is right/wrong, the truth is that they are both as bad as each other.. as history tells us. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 16:51:55 @gsymon : I'm particularly upset about the murder and mutilation of people who cannot (yet) be held responsible for whatever action or opinion: children. On both sides (although the "amounts", if I may say so, are *very* unequal). B.t.w. I'm 66 and my grandpa was a Jew (born 1900) who survived WWII - his family was murdered by Nazi's. We fail to learn from history. "Never again" is just wishful thinking, if not restricted to a specific race. Wars never solve problems; they make them worse. Capitalism (= greed) is the perfect petrol to light small fires, and to make some morons to profit enormously and some poor kids to die. It must stop. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 16:57:32 @ErikvanStraten And that is why RuZZia must be driven out of Ukraine (including Crimea). They must not have any win from that. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:12:02 @wonka : that's an opinion we share - from our perspective. Trump is not going to "end the war" in an acceptable way, but wars do not end if nobody is prepared to compromomise. We've become too polarized on too many matters. Without accepting other perspectives, there will be no solutions. I too find it tough to write this, it really hurts because it feels unfair from my PoV. I believe Zelensky to be a lot smarter than both Putin and Trump. Both Ukrainian and Russian soldiers (or from other countries) and their families are exhausted, if not without legs or burried. Why? |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:16:06 @ErikvanStraten What kind of compromise do you envision that doesn't leave any win to RuZZia? Where should Ukraine agree to step back from their demands, and why? |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:45:08 @wonka : I honestly don't know and my personal opinion is irrelevant. This question should primarily be answered by the Ukrainian people. It is their land, not mine. The only thing I can do is try to help de-escalate and to remind everyone (those prepared to listen to me) that all of us have human rights. That is, everyone must have *the same* rights. We're lost if we stop respecting human beings whom we know nothing about. It is precisely the old definition of anti-semitism: hating *any* Jew, purely based on prejudice. It's racism: believing that you are a better person than anyone who differs from you in any way, EXCEPT for opinion and/or behavior. I don't have to like Muslims. I want to respect them, just as I insist that they respect me. However, If Muslims beat up a gay person or drive their truck into a mob, I refuse to hate them because they are Muslims. I *do* hate them for being idiots. Just like I hate Google for being evil (but that's another, albeit hate-related, topic). |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:39:11 @ErikvanStraten @wonka @iju @Free_Press " I believe Zelensky to be a lot smarter than both Putin and Trump " One of the ironies about this, is that actors, by profession, understand what people are doing, saying, thinking. If not, they're no good at acting. 🙂 |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:57:36 @gsymon @ErikvanStraten @wonka @iju @Free_Press |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 18:01:20 @incoherentmumblings @ErikvanStraten @wonka @iju @Free_Press Ha! Ronald Reagan was a 'B Rate' movie actor. (Back in the day, there were A movies and B movies). He was crap. Just as he was as President. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 18:07:03 @gsymon @ErikvanStraten @wonka @iju @Free_Press |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 18:13:38 @incoherentmumblings @ErikvanStraten @wonka @iju @Free_Press Not intentional. I've always always said of Reagan... "All the US could come up with for President, was a B-Rate movie actor" Thinking of course, that it couldn't really get any worse. But America proved me wrong with Trump. Question is now.. is Trump finally the bottom of the barrel? |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 18:21:08 @gsymon @ErikvanStraten @wonka @iju @Free_Press |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 18:06:47 And so was "Ill be back" Schwartzenegger who would have liked to become US president (not suggesting he would be good or not - perhaps Gene Hackman would have been a good POTUS). |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:12:37 @ErikvanStraten @iju @Free_Press Yup. I agree with every point. ( My grandpa ran away from home at 16, so that he could sign up, in a town he wasn't known in, because he was too young, to fight in WW1. He survived, but I was one of the few he ever talked to about it, because when I was 17, I was learning Wilfred Owen's 'Strange Meeting'. "It seemed that out of battle I escaped |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:29:39 @gsymon : there are a lot of impressive stories out there. We should keep repeating them, honouring those who fought for justice, many of them paying the highest price. Like in many war-surviving families, bad experiences are usually not talked about. It is too painful for the victims, and why spoil young happy people's lives? IMHO we must remember, but at the same time we must be *very* aware of the fact that people always tell one side of a story. Most remain silent about the mistakes they made and wrongdoings they committed ("they" including, in particular, parents and grandparents). Zionists are now massively abusing the Holocaust to make people feel unconditionally sorry for Jews (not in the least Israeli's) - not those living 80 years ago, but TODAY.
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:08:50 >Tribal infighting You are intentionally obfuscating that historians are unanimous in that Zionism/State of Israel is coming from the background of a western colonialism, akin to South Africa (with whom they had good relations). The debate is if it's too late to do something to it, or do the Zionists have the right to do so. Neither point justifies genocide, or allows washing hands. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:20:42 @iju @Free_Press @ErikvanStraten Their conflict goes back hundreds and hundreds of years. It's not just down to the well intended, but truly awful decision to give the Israelis a part of Palestine. A decision which the UK abstained from. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:35:41 @gsymon @Free_Press @ErikvanStraten Jews had lived peacefully in Palestine for centuries, and even settlement of new Jews from Europe went relatively well before Balfour declaration of 1917 led to assumption (and private acceptance by British politicians) of a new Zionist state as soon as the population figures allowed. Which led to Zionist terrorism. This while Britain was given the mandate to develop Palestinian sovereignty. That UK eventually didn't vote doesn't matter. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 18:03:41 @ErikvanStraten @gsymon @iju @Free_Press The consistent position covering both situations is that invading a territory and doing war crimes on its population must never be excused and must always be opposed hard enough to make the intended goals not pay off. I can't make the UK or any other government accept that position, but I can hold it myself. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 17:24:10 Please remember that simple answers are usually wrong. For various reasons the discourse seems to be solely about expansion of NATO and moving of NATO troops to the new eastern border. This is somewhat of a strawman: yes, Putin was gross about both decisions, but this was *in the context of Bush II withdrawing from anti-ballistic missile treaty AND starting the "missile shield" research*. Being unable to act on the latter, it acted upon the former. |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 18:30:03 @iju @gsymon @ErikvanStraten @Free_Press |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 18:40:07 @gsymon @ErikvanStraten @iju @Free_Press |
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Föderation EN Do 27.02.2025 16:43:44 @ErikvanStraten
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