hhmx.de

Timnit Gebru (she/her)

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 22:02:05

Y’all out here talking about our instance moderation when people talk about racism on Mastodon, wanting to believe that all the racists hang out at IamANazi.social.

Maybe mastodon isn’t the “good people” platform and is filled with racists like everywhere else?

Dave Alvarado

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 22:07:38

@timnitGebru or, you know, filled with *more* racists since there sure as heck aren't as many Black folks as on other platforms.

Timnit Gebru (she/her)

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 22:11:17

@dave yes and no quote tweets means they’re more comfortable.

FeralRobots

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 22:38:32

@timnitGebru @dave
thinking back to how many black folks got quote-tweet-shamed when they first came here.

Sheldon Chang 🇺🇸

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 23:02:06

@timnitGebru I've only recently heard that not having quote posts is unfriendly to Black people. Why is that?

For the record, I'm 100% for having quote posts, but never saw it as a cultural thing or a feature that people saw as being positive for safety.

@dave

Lux :flag_genderfluid:

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 23:15:34

@sysop408 I feel that the impossibility of quote toots, meant to limit possible harassment, also leads to the impossibility of making a callout on a specific toot.

Being afraid of posting something racist because of the potential callout is also a way to limit racism. Remove the tools to callout and you also remove the fear.

And, as to why black people? It's also an educated guess, but I think that's because the fediverse is quite ignorant about "ordinary racism" (that's a white thing to be unaware of that). They feel racism is only people being excessively violent about POC, and they totally ignore the fact they also are racist, in a way that does not conform to their definition, but also in a pernicious way, that causes even more harm than fully exposed racism. And I feel it's mainly directed onto black people.

@timnitGebru @dave

please donate to me to help me live and end my suffering

Föderation EN Sa 27.07.2024 12:56:27

@orange_lux @sysop408 @timnitGebru @dave we should abandon the mastodon software altogether and use something like akkoma or misskey forks.

misskey and akkoma forks both have quote boosts.

your auntifa liza 🇵🇷  🦛 🦦

Föderation EN Sa 27.07.2024 02:07:05

@timnitGebru @dave the fact they have deliberately left chunks of UI/UX out that were first generated because of Black folks and are now part of social media vernacular ON PURPOSE, tells me everything i need to know. my health has postponed me moving out of this instance but it's on my todo list. it's unconscionable that they've decided to use the code base as a defacto enforcer of segregation.

Angie 🇵🇸🇺🇦

Föderation EN Sa 27.07.2024 02:09:04

@blogdiva @timnitGebru @dave

mastodon.social is effectively the Twitter of Mastodon.

Queen Antifa 🌹:debian_logo:​:linux:

Föderation EN Sa 27.07.2024 02:36:26

@blogdiva @timnitGebru @dave it would be nice if someone forked mastodon and decided to just add it themselves.

please donate to me to help me live and end my suffering

Föderation EN Sa 27.07.2024 12:57:21

@blogdiva @timnitGebru @dave luckily akkoma and misskey forks support quote boosting!

prasoon

Föderation EN Sa 27.07.2024 05:11:48

@timnitGebru
I've been thinking of moving to akkoma.social/ (it has quotes and other needed features; supports ActivityPub + many others). The discussion on your toot makes me jump ship faster! Thanks.
@dave

Jay Thurber Show

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 22:07:46

@timnitGebru As a long time wypipo, I never stop being surprised when my fellow Caucasians are like, "why, there's no racism in my church/temple/school/company/club/university/group! maybe other places ---- but not here!"

It's so baked into everything that we've trained ourselves not to see it

PeachMcD

Föderation EN Sa 27.07.2024 02:11:02

@jaythurbershow @timnitGebru

That's part, yes. I also think ytpipo are taught to think of racism as a personal failure rather than a social disease they've carried since before they could talk

That disease is curable but it's a life's work & lotsa ytpipo would rather deny it than take that on

cf alcoholism

Inaya Shujaat عنايه شجاعت 🇳🇿🇵🇸

Föderation EN So 28.07.2024 22:15:08

@jaythurbershow @timnitGebru white folks fail to see that the reason why “there’s no racism” in those places is most likely because EVERYONE IS WHITE.

Laura Langdon

Föderation EN So 28.07.2024 23:44:09

@jaythurbershow @timnitGebru 100% this, but also on Mastodon we have the somewhat unique problem of having what we can see be determined by our instance. I couldn’t see the racist replies to a recent thread until I used the “Load from remote server” option, because my instance had already blocked them, which I appreciate!

But the solution to racism on Mastodon can’t be “Instances with more marginalized folks should do more work! Just spend more time blocking!”

Gorgeous Killer

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 22:11:59

@timnitGebru People like to pretend there aren’t more Black and Brown folks because of the lack of profile for Mastodon.

As if most bigots are in this space are going to broadcast themselves as such.

Kip Van Den Bos, CEO of the Good Posting Foundation

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 22:13:52

@timnitGebru Every time someone mentions that some frothing asshole racist, or some snarky crypto-fascist, or some white nationalist came for them, the comments always seem to be full of "well-meaning" people asking pointed questions about moderation with the extremely unsubtle insinuation that it's the victim's fault. Every time I see this. It's like clockwork.

Snowshadow 🇨🇦

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 23:03:59

@timnitGebru
Oh just like anywhere else we do have a problem with racism at Mastodon, that's for sure and anyone saying it isn't so is fooling only themselves.
Wishing it wasn't so and denying it doesn't make it go away.

It's Pronounced DEETS

Föderation EN Fr 26.07.2024 23:22:10

@timnitGebru most of the bad actors I've seen are from dot social.

Brian

Föderation EN Sa 27.07.2024 02:13:43

@timnitGebru I got a strike for “Holocaust inversion” by stating the facts about a particular colonizer’s parallels. It’s as filtered and biased as what they aim to replace.

Inaya Shujaat عنايه شجاعت 🇳🇿🇵🇸

Föderation EN So 28.07.2024 22:19:09

@timnitGebru @bgannin Well, it IS a German instance, so no one should be surprised.

Timnit Gebru (she/her)

Föderation EN So 28.07.2024 23:02:57

@InayaShujaat @bgannin I think they reported me too for talking about genocidal Israel. But they reported me to myself.

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

Föderation EN Sa 27.07.2024 02:27:07

@timnitGebru I don't believe there is a (network/data/communication) protocol that only "good people" can use, despite the existing RFC (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_bit).

I believe there's a problem, so I do think we should address it, but it's not going to be by switching to a different protocol (or brand for the same protocol).

I reject centralized moderation -- private or governmental, but then again I'm not at much risk of getting discriminatory messages/actions.

LA Legault 🇨🇦

Föderation EN So 28.07.2024 20:59:39

@timnitGebru @gerrymcgovern

The entire fedi when someone talks about racism or sexism:

Janet Grootebroeder

Föderation EN So 28.07.2024 22:48:40

@LALegault @timnitGebru @gerrymcgovern No, I think it's horrible. I don't experience it myself (the racism), as a white person, but I hate it that things like this are going on.

Sablebadger

Föderation EN Mo 29.07.2024 00:01:40

@LALegault @timnitGebru @gerrymcgovern it's frustrating because I don't see it happening. I absolutely believe it's happening. I just can't figure out how to fight it.

Gerry McGovern

Föderation EN Mo 29.07.2024 07:55:07

@LALegault
It's a real tragedy and very depressing.
@timnitGebru

fulanigirl

Föderation EN So 28.07.2024 21:42:20

@timnitGebru Its just like everywhere else because it's the internet. But often people who praise themselves for being liberal use that as a cover to excuse themselves from evaluating their own behavior. It is always someone else who is offensive or racists but never themselves.

Inaya Shujaat عنايه شجاعت 🇳🇿🇵🇸

Föderation EN So 28.07.2024 22:20:11

@timnitGebru @fulanigirl Or since they haven’t personally experienced it, it must not exist. 😑

Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle

Föderation EN So 28.07.2024 22:24:20

@timnitGebru

IIRC the mastodon development team said they changed their minds and quote boost (or however we call it) was now on the roadmap. That was sort of one year ago, though, and we haven't seen it yet.

Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle

Föderation EN So 28.07.2024 22:27:57

@timnitGebru

For those who use Android, @moshidon has its own implementation of quote boost. You long-press the boost button, and Moshidon shows a short list of possible actions, including "write about it" (or something like that, I'm not using it in English).

Lucas @Moshidon 🇺🇦

Föderation EN Mo 29.07.2024 00:04:19

@lffontenelle @timnitGebru Precisely! And next release onwards we will also render them as if they were native quote toots 😁