hhmx.de

Bread and Circuses

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 15:30:39

Capitalism is stupid.

Two images, one above the other. On top is a photo of a single-serving package of pears in a plastic container. Label on the package says: "Pears grown in Argentina. Packed in Thailand." Below this is a map of the world, with arrows showing the long long long journey of pears from Argentina to Thailand and then back across the Pacific Ocean to the United States, where the single-serving package above was purchased.

(Medien: 1)

CartyBoston

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 15:35:57

@breadandcircuses

There is one pear packing machine and it may as well be printing money. The invisible hand is not very on top of things.

Charlie the Anti-Fascist Dog

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 15:38:19

@breadandcircuses that they can still make money on this just proves that capitalism is a deeply flawed economic system. it's hyper-inefficient.

OmegaMastadon

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 16:01:48

@arrrg @breadandcircuses the alternative is to use subpar local pears and build an entirely new factory, just to make it so the process is three days shorter and five times more expensive.

I think capitalism has got it's benefits when it comes to maximising profits my friend...

Charlie the Anti-Fascist Dog

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:01:21

@OmegaMastadon @breadandcircuses i agree that capitalism is very good at extracting wealth. if that's the gauge for what's a good and functioning economic system - capitalism for the win.

and it's true, without capitalism, people might have to eat more local food rather than shipping pears in plastic cups all over the globe.

OmegaMastadon

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:03:31

@arrrg @breadandcircuses haha. Very funny. Let's not ignore that this is fermented pears, which wouldn't be present at all in America if it wasn't for the so-called capitalist system.

Charlie the Anti-Fascist Dog

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:06:06

@OmegaMastadon @breadandcircuses i don't know shit about pears. why would it matter if people have fermented pears or not? i don't get your point.

OmegaMastadon

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:10:09

@arrrg @breadandcircuses because the product is fermented. Fermented pears have small demand. Packing & producing is mainly done in southeast Asia, leading to the situation where it's grown it Argentina, packed in Thailand and sold in USA.

this isn't just about pears

Sally Strange

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:20:11

@OmegaMastadon first, the pears in that image are not fermented.

Second, what difference does it make?

Third, obviously it's bigger than pears, the OP was making a point about capitalism not pears. Are you new here? Are you OK?
@arrrg @breadandcircuses

Charlie the Anti-Fascist Dog

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:21:17

@SallyStrange @OmegaMastadon @breadandcircuses

and fwiw, you can grow pears in north america, i have a pear tree in my backyard, the squirrels love them.

Sally Strange

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:26:34

@arrrg

Oh yeah, missed that bit of weirdness. Yep there are pear trees all over N. America. They're not indigenous but then neither are apple trees.
@OmegaMastadon @breadandcircuses

Charlie the Anti-Fascist Dog

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:37:29

@SallyStrange the squirrels aren’t indigenous either.

Sally Strange

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:42:35

@arrrg nor is a lot of the grass that covers our lawns... So many things

Charlie the Anti-Fascist Dog

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:52:41

@SallyStrange how beautiful this place must have been before colonization, it must have been just awe-inspiring. it still is in many places, despite being compromised.

the only people who lived here loved the land and the animals and the trees before europeans came along and fucked it all up.

what we call the united states of america is probably the world's largest crime scene.

Sally Strange

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:56:23

@arrrg I regularly am awestruck by the natural beauty around me, while also being aware that what I'm seeing must be a faded echo of what existed before

Strange Culprits

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:59:01

@arrrg @SallyStrange As true as it is sad, though the whole of Africa could probably give the Americas (South America had it very bad too) a run for the money

Killick

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:28:36

@arrrg @SallyStrange

I try not to over-romanticize the first inhabitants of N. America, who probably hunted mastodons to extinction, burned forests to spread corn crops, had wars with each other, etc. But even so, it's nothing compared to what happened after 1492.

David Cohen

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:10:59

@arrrg @SallyStrange Are they from Thailand or Argentina? I feel that the answer to this is somehow important. πŸ˜‰

Sally Strange

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:23:57

@davidbcohen @arrrg uh Europe I thought

OmegaMastadon

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:02:00

@SallyStrange @arrrg @breadandcircuses yes I'm new to mastadon and yes I know it's about capitalism. The issue is that it's a stupid argument, you can't have a factory for everything and a farm for everything, which global trade fixes, even if it leads to situations like this they usually are higher quality and cheaper as a result

Sally Strange

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:04:55

@OmegaMastadon the argument is fine. What you're presenting in response is a fallacy, specifically the false dichotomy fallacy. There are options in between what the OP pointed out and "factories everywhere."

Plus, it has not escaped our notice that you accept "maximizing profits" (for a tiny minority of the population) as a worthwhile goal for society in general to pursue.

@arrrg @breadandcircuses

Derekodon

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:34:28

@SallyStrange @OmegaMastadon @arrrg @breadandcircuses Y'all are arguing with a bot - which may or may not be fermented...

Strange Culprits

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:01:43

@OmegaMastadon @arrrg @breadandcircuses Actually, the better alternative is to have access to locally grown pears

Same can be said for most staple consumer goods

Global scale capitalism = same old oligopoly

bhcompy

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:17:20

@StrangeCulprits
You might be surprised to learn there are seasons where growing pears becomes difficult and that there are regions where growing pears is not possible
@OmegaMastadon @arrrg @breadandcircuses

Strange Culprits

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:20:56

@bhcompy @OmegaMastadon @arrrg @breadandcircuses Iceland called, they decided to be clever and grow things like bananas... In. Iceland.

John de Largentaye

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:28:43

@StrangeCulprits @bhcompy @OmegaMastadon @arrrg @breadandcircuses Iceland has so much geothermal energy that heated greenhouses are easy and cheap.

Strange Culprits

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:34:20

@jlargentaye Most places on Earth have geothermal access sufficient for local agricultural needs, which is cheap compared to the transnational shipping industrial complex

duboisp

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 15:39:00

@breadandcircuses
buyers are stupid, too.

Bici UC

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 15:43:56

@breadandcircuses it's ok tho b/c sending things on container ships is super efficient and doesn't emit a lot of greenhouse gases
nature.com/articles/s44183-023

OmegaMastadon

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 15:59:46

@biciuc @breadandcircuses it wouldn't be done if it wasn't maximum profitability. You might be able to grow pears but it won't be as efficient or good as alternatives. You can make a packing factory but it won't be as useful or utilised as ones in South east Asia. You might say that moving it this long is inefficient itself but pears need to ripen and transport is dirt cheap.

Bici UC

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 16:05:43

@OmegaMastadon @breadandcircuses transport is cheap b/c shipping companies externalize the cost of climate change onto everyone else. This is why a carbon tax is important, to shift some of the cost of climate change back to those who are causing it.
When the cost is right, companies seeking maximum profitability will find creative solutions to lower their costs and carbon emissions.

OmegaMastadon

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 16:10:20

@biciuc @breadandcircuses I agree that taxes on carbon emissions would lead to innovative solutions to save money for these companies, considering cargo is very cheap even if subpar alternatives are used they could still make great profits

Nicholas Laney

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 16:07:44

@breadandcircuses
More precisely:

(Medien: 1)

Rickd6

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 16:20:33

@breadandcircuses so why is shipping so cheap?

Duke

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 16:27:04

@breadandcircuses The day I learned that meat from chickens raised in the US, is then shipped to China for "processing", before being sent back here as nuggets and patties, was the last time I ate chicken that didn't arrive to my plate still on the bone.

Apicultor 🐝

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:15:43

@DukeDuke I cannot believe this would make financial sense, especially given that the transport would need to be frozen. Do you have a source for this?

Tyson et al have tons of production capacity in North America.

@breadandcircuses

Boris Barbour

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:38:16

@DukeDuke @breadandcircuses

Had similarly heard that between being fished off Grimsby and reaching the pub there, scampi would transit via the Philippines to be prepared.

Ralph058 (S/he/it) AF4EZ

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 16:59:01

@breadandcircuses
Somebody needs to do an updated cost benefit analysis of off shore production.
Back when the apparel industry was moved from Alabama, one of the local papers did an analysis. The total cost of labor in a pair of Tennesse produced Lee jeans was one dollar retail.
I'm sure that it took Lee a long time to recoup the losses form the move. I'm sure that, in the meantime, they jacked up the price more than a dollar.
On US cars, the total labor these days is about $500 per new car....which is about the same as the executive salary cost.
BUT, China can sell comparable cars $10k and $15k less, why?

Nobody Ψ¨Ψ§Ϊ†ΫŒΨ² ΰ€¨ΰ€Ύΰ€Έΰ₯ΰ€€ΰ€Ώ (he/him)

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 17:30:02

@breadandcircuses

Capitalism is optimized for imaginary units of labor/resources or has steep discounts on the labor of exploited people and resources.

It is not optimized for utility, justice, energy or any other such meaningful variable.

Ron Franke

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:00:56

@breadandcircuses That truly is an egregious example of capitalism at it's worst. One would think that Argentina would want to expand jobs and opportunities locally by opening a canning factory in Argentina. But, it's likely a multinational corporation that's behind this trade example and they simply don't care.

Travis Lankow

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:11:56

@breadandcircuses stuff like this kills me isnide. Even seeing berries shipped from Peru at the grocery store on the shelf next to ones grown the next state away is crazy. Seems like a carbon tax would really cut down on it. Nobody should be able to pass the cost of carbon emissions on to victims of climate change, but that’s just business as usual.

Luigi Rosa :StarWars:

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:15:34

@breadandcircuses What surprises me is the need to cut pears and put them in a plastic cup.

Chris

Föderation · Fr 20.09.2024 18:40:34

@lrosa @breadandcircuses
A plastic cup with sugar water.*

Massimiliano Siddi

Föderation DE Fr 20.09.2024 18:23:02

@breadandcircuses Because any other alternative would be communism.

Janis

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:28:09

@breadandcircuses Yeah, but it makes jobs. :faceepalm:

Qob

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:28:13

@breadandcircuses so is non recyclable single use packaging

Johns

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:29:09

@breadandcircuses And that's because the cost of transport, fuel used and pollution caused is not fully added to the items.

Absolutely fucking disgraceful

John de Largentaye

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:30:29

@breadandcircuses @briankrebs cargo ships returning from Argentina will take anything. That’s what makes some of these counterintuitive transports happen.

AlwaysNurture

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:32:05

@breadandcircuses CORRECT ANSWER! πŸ‘πŸ‘πŸŽπŸπŸπŸ‘πŸ’πŸ“πŸ…πŸŒ½πŸŒΆπŸ„πŸŒ°πŸžπŸ§€πŸŒπŸ‹πŸπŸ—πŸ–πŸ›πŸœπŸπŸ¨ Free food, housing, education and healthcare for you as a reward! Free food, healthcare, housing and education for everyone else too!

StillIRise1963

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:37:22

@breadandcircuses No more need be said. You nailed it right here.

David

Föderation EN Fr 20.09.2024 18:38:28

@breadandcircuses

I'm curious how many were fed at low cost due to losses in this industrial supply chain.