|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 17:36:26 https://atprotocol.dev/atmosphereconf/ https://atprotocol.dev/atmosphereconf-2025-talks/ @boris (one of the organizers) is talking in front of the audience. (Boris and I are both from Vancouver.) I see Fediverse people here. For example, @damon (of We Distribute fame) is sitting next to me. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 17:39:21 |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 17:53:22 |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 17:54:59 "The Internet is a medium for creating new mediums — or at least it was." — Blaine Cook ( @blaine ) ( https://bsky.app/profile/blaine.bsky.social ) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:00:58 My paraphrase of something Blaine Cook ( @blaine ) ( https://bsky.app/profile/blaine.bsky.social ) said: The original idea of WebFinger was to separate your identity from the application and services you use. Rather that bind then together (as on the Fediverse). |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:03:51 Blaine Cook ( @blaine ) ( https://bsky.app/profile/blaine.bsky.social ) quoting someone else: "Be the media." |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:05:44 Blaine Cook ( @blaine ) ( https://bsky.app/profile/blaine.bsky.social ) asked who knows the history of the telegraph. ( @reiver note: I do a bit. I learned Morse code as a young child — my father's sister's husband had me learn it.) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:10:28 Blaine Cook ( @blaine ) ( https://bsky.app/profile/blaine.bsky.social ) going from history of Telegram to the Telephone. ( @reiver note: My father was a Telecommunications Engineer. He was in the industry during both when it analog and digital eras. I heard A LOT about the physics, math, and technology of telephone technology. ) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:14:07 Paraphrasing Blaine Cook ( @blaine ) ( https://bsky.app/profile/blaine.bsky.social ): You could fix how Mastodon and the Fediverse uses WebFinger if WebFinger could point to multiple profiles. It doesn't now. But it could. #ATmosphereConf #FediDev #FediDevs #Fediverse #MastoDev #Mastodon |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:18:38 Blaine Cook ( @blaine ) ( https://bsky.app/profile/blaine.bsky.social ) top priorities: • moderation tools (This was a ATproto specific answer.) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:19:28 |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:21:07 Blaine Cook ( @blaine ) ( https://bsky.app/profile/blaine.bsky.social ) mentioned that the new Raspberry Pi 5 has the same computing power as Twitter when it had 5 million users. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:49:47 Paul Frazee ( @pfrazee.com ) on stage now. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:55:05 Paul Frazee ( @pfrazee.com ): The 3 big efforts to try to re-decentralize the Web and Internet: • blockchains <--- most money went here |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:57:03 Paul Frazee ( @pfrazee.com ): P2P has a lot problems. For example — Creating a good comment section is extremely difficult if not impossible, with P2P |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:58:07 Paul Frazee ( @pfrazee.com ): ActivityPump got renamed to ActivityPub — that was a good rename 🙂 |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 18:58:52 |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:00:22 Paul Frazee ( @pfrazee.com ): The worst thing we (Bluesky) did to people was request them to understand DNS. For example — one time we had to explain DNS to Flavor Fav. 🙂 |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:03:00 |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:03:52 Paul Frazee ( @pfrazee.com ): "What if we (Bluesky) did P2P with servers — I'll call that server-to-server." |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:05:54 Paul Frazee ( @pfrazee.com ): Bluesky / ATProto lexicon almost was RDF — and would have been if Paul had more time. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:11:18 Paul Frazee ( @pfrazee.com ): Bluesky didn't use ActivityPub for 2 reasons — №1: Because of the identity issue. Once you make a choice (of server) you are locked in. You cannot migrate freely. (Current Fediverse migration not good enough.) №2: The culture on the Fediverse at the time. There was a culture on the Fediverse of being hostile towards global aggregators. ( @reiver note: AFAICT, this is a very small minority of hyper hostile individuals.) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:14:10 |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:18:14 Paul Frazee ( @pfrazee.com ): Bluesky practical decentralization: • cost reduction — cheaper relays |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:23:32 Paul Frazee ( @pfrazee.com ): There is a GitHub discussion about ATProto Call For Developer Projects https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/discussions/3049 Stuff for others to work on. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:36:15 Nick Gerakines ( @ngerakines.me ) on stage. Presenting about Smoke Signal ( https://smokesignal.events/ ). |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:39:48 |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:41:23 Nick Gerakines ( @ngerakines.me ): Mentioned article: |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:43:13 Nick Gerakines ( @ngerakines.me ): ActivityPub and Mastodon are effectively the same thing to most people. ( @reiver note: this seems similar to the phrase "the Mastodon in the room".) #ATmosphereConf #ActivityPub #Fediverse #Mastodon #TheMastodonInTheRoom |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 19:49:55 Nick Gerakines ( @ngerakines.me ): Mentioned: For an organization to create Lexicons. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:01:01 Nick Gerakines ( @ngerakines.me ): https://plc.directory/ needs to be distributed and P2P. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:02:57 Nick Gerakines ( @ngerakines.me ) and someone in the audience — Talking about how #Golang interfaces might serve as a good model for how software uses lexicons / namespaces. Ex: anything that has fields 'A' 'B', etc, just works in the user-interface. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:11:11 Peter Wang ( https://bsky.app/profile/wang.social ) on stage. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:13:22 Peter Wang ( https://bsky.app/profile/wang.social ) set up a small fund for Developer Grants. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:15:05 Peter Wang ( https://bsky.app/profile/wang.social ): The Rust programming-language is the hipster thing to do and be interested in. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:18:12 Peter Wang ( https://bsky.app/profile/wang.social ): Social is not like a choice between Linux distributions. Social is something more foundational to human nature. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:18:58 Peter Wang ( https://bsky.app/profile/wang.social ): Every app doesn't need to be a unicorn. [Some can just be useful.] |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:20:05 Peter Wang ( https://bsky.app/profile/wang.social ): Having a shared social protocol is similar to when the railroads became the same and could work with anyone's trains. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:22:05 Peter Wang ( https://bsky.app/profile/wang.social ) mentioned a previous talk of his: "Towards a Humane Network" (2017) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:22:34 Peter Wang ( https://bsky.app/profile/wang.social ) mentioned a previous talk of his: "The Web We Lost, and The Web We Must Build" |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:26:31 Peter Wang ( https://bsky.app/profile/wang.social ) mentioned a previous talk of his: "Every person's attention is zero-sum." |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:27:37 Peter Wang ( https://bsky.app/profile/wang.social ) mentioned a previous talk of his: He (Peter) is interested in investing in AI. (Ignore the current AI hype. The useful stuff.) He wants humane and human-focused AI. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:30:30 Jay Graber ( @jay.bsky.team ) on stage. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:32:59 Jay Graber ( @jay.bsky.team ) mentioned: "A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace", by John Perry Barlow (of EFF fame) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Declaration_of_the_Independence_of_Cyberspace |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 20:36:52 Jay Graber ( @jay.bsky.team ): "Have you heard of the butterfly-effect." ( @reiver note: you can be the butterfly who can have a large effect.) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:04:00 I have gone to one of the unrecorded discussion rooms, since the talks are recorded (and I can watch it later). |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:06:23 Topics up to discuss: • user intents |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:07:14 Talking about ATProto user-intent first. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:08:16 |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:11:20 Peter Wang wants gov't regulators to enforce ATProto user-intent. ( @reiver note: I think that would be a very bad idea — a cure that would be worse than the disease.) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:13:40 The same person (Peter Wang) is talking about licensing — i.e., requiring gov't permission. ( @reiver note: again, I think that would be a very bad idea — a cure that would be worse than the disease.) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:22:21 Rabble ( @rabble ) talking about how — if you had someone else's PDS user-data on your phone, German regulation would require you to file paperwork every single time you cross a German state line. And, if you don't, the whole social-media is illegal under German GDPR law. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:32:56 I brought up an issue regarding regulation — How do you create a law that distinguishes the difference between thr learning that humans do versus learning that AIs do. (I don't think this is a point that should be ignored — as you could end up with a cure that is worse than the disease.) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:34:50 Boris Mann ( @boris ) talking about if the community made their ATProto docs CC-NC, then Bluesky company could not contribute. Oops — unintended consequence. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:36:28 Conner Ruhl mentioning that regulations is favoring AI companies with lots of money and hurting open-source AI projects that don't have money to deal with regulations. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:42:24 Conner Ruhl mentioning that ATProto user-intents is giving people a false sense of security. Bad actor won't care about them. If you want to be private, you need to actually make your data private! |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:44:23 One person pointing out that an "anti-AI intent" would prevent people from using anti-spam filters, since it is AI. ( @reiver note: I have said similar a number of times elsewhere.) |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:47:52 One person from Flipboard pointing out that, AI is used to look for hate-speech, and look for pornographic images, etc. An "anti-AI" intent would block that, too. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:53:34 Conner Ruhl — Bluesky's still sucks a bit in terms of onboarding, because it lacks some of the AI necessary to do that. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:55:24 One person saying — builders have mostly left Mastodon (and gone to Bluesky), because when developers try to build on Mastodon, they get yelled at, and maybe even receive death threats. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 22:58:43 A person talking about — it is difficult to build a collaborative filtering (AI) because 3rd parties don't have enough data, that Bluesky company has. Ex: what the person looked at, etc. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 23:04:03 Staying in the unrecorded discussion rooms, since the talks are recorded (and I can watch it later). Now on Private data. (New host. New topic.) https://notes.commonscomputer.com/atmosphereconf-private-data |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 23:12:15 Private data versus Secret data Private — you are ok with people knowing the information existing, but don't want them to know the value. Secret — don't even want people to know the data exists. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 23:14:47 From @boris : Direct Message (DM) — private, only visible to the participants. From @pfrazee.com : Want end to end encryption (E2EE). |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 23:17:27 MLS (Messaging Layer Security) being talked about. Proposed for DMs for Bluesky. @pfrazee.com mentioned this during his talk. @rabble mentioning that they have done tests of MLS on Nostr. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 23:20:00 Someone pointing out that — MLS (Messaging Layer Security) would introduce centralization to Bluesky. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 23:32:31 Some people arguing that Signal should make it so others can integrate them more easily. So that Bluesky could use them for direct messaging (DMing). |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 23:45:57 From @boris : This conference to kick of many working-groups and many special-interest-groups, that go off and do their thing. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 23:48:14 Person from Germ Network (direct messaging) here. @boris strongly encouraging them to be part of DM working group, for ATProto. A number of questions about them. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 23:51:06 . @boris mentioning @darius fork of Mastodon — hometown. |
|
Föderation EN Sa 22.03.2025 23:56:28 Someone pointing out that — When you have E2EE (end to end encryption) you have to do all the work on the client-side — since the client-side is the only one that can decrypt it. ( @reiver note: that isn't completely true — there are some encryption techniques that can allow certain operations on cyphertext.) |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 03:34:09 At the "Big Time Brewery & Alehouse" after-event. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 04:34:30 Talking to people who made https://dazzle.fm/ ( https://bsky.app/profile/johnsabath.com , https://bsky.app/profile/connerruhl.bsky.social , https://bsky.app/profile/attentionshoppers.bsky.social ) They are all ex- StabilityAI. It shows trending topics & articles based on data from the Bluesky firehose relay. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 17:14:17 Day 2 of #ATmosphereConf |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 17:36:22 3 simultaneous tracks today. Only 1 recorded. (A function of how popular the 1st day was.) |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 17:39:11 Erin Kissane ( @kissane ) on stage via a video feed. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 17:41:47 . @kissane was introduced as someone who is trying to get more software developers involved with journalism. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 17:47:04 Things that affected @kissane 's perspective: - Covid tracking project |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 17:49:44 |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 17:59:09 |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 18:09:20 . @kissane notes & citations for her talk at: https://erinkissane.com/atconf (URL won't work at time of posting this, but should work later.) |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 18:19:52 Someone from the audience talking to @kissane about: Sometimes, someone or some group who was at one time oppressed, later becomes the oppressor. How do you go about identifying that, and addressing that in the systems you create. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 18:22:55 . @kissane talked a bit about the history of the Black Panthers (in the U.S.) creating free medical clinics and free schools. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 18:25:39 |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 18:50:17 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) on stage. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 18:51:54 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ): Blacksky is built on #RustLang |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 18:53:40 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) mentioned this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/opinion/charity-philanthropy-mutual-aid.html |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 18:54:32 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) mentioned this article: |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 18:55:17 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) values can be summarized as: Software as resistance |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 18:58:11 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ): CashApp not designed for mutual-aid, but it has been used for it. A parallel for decentralized social-media, too. Can be used for things it is not designed for. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:00:38 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) : Decentralized Social-Media protocols have horse-less carriage syndrome — People are trying to build things that look at lot like things in the past. (But it doesn't have to. It can be something new.) |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:06:49 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) mentioned: Bobby Lee Rush |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:08:47 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) : Bluesky more geared towards 1B people sized communities. Fediverse more geared towards 100K person sized communities. Nothing in the middle for 1M people sized communities. (Blacksky is there.) |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:10:05 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) : People don't want to be just stuck in one community. But also want access to other communities. And have access to the wider world. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:11:12 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) : Content moderation should be on a per community basis. How do you build tech to enable that? |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:13:50 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) : Blacksky is really a number of separate communities grouped together. (Ex: blackademics.) |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:15:11 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) and other build their own Bluesky PDS from scratch. https://github.com/blacksky-algorithms/rsky And, and working on their own relay now. . |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:21:13 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) : Build for the community you want to work with. What others think does not matter — ignore them. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:29:10 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) : Remove technical barriers so regular people can use it. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:30:44 Rudy Fraser ( https://bsky.app/profile/rudyfraser.com ) : You don't need 100 people to like you — you just need 10 people to love you. Build for them. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:41:33 Moved over to 1 of the 3 unrecorded sessions. (Will watch the recorded session later. Hopefully other post about the 2 other unrecorded sessions.) |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:44:45 A discussion about video on ATProto. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:45:45 |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:48:30 Talking about using Blueskt social-graph to have content on day 1. So, deal with the chicken-and-the-egg problem — of audience and content. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:55:22 Someone asking about maybe there are content creators who don't want their post to go to all of Bluesky. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 19:58:12 Now https://spark.social/ being discussed. Another short-form video for Bluesky. They have their on PDSes, relay, etc. Also have their own lexicons. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 20:13:20 Someone said: The only reason YouTube gave such a good cut of ad revenue to creators is that — back in the day, they had competitors who were giving better cuts. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 20:14:13 Same person: Focus on the economics of the platform first — make it a viable sustainable platform — to attract a creator. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 20:15:59 Same person — Some people are making money on Threads. Viral controversial content seems to make money. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 20:17:57 Someone else mentioned this person who does a deep dive Threads payments to creators: |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 20:24:16 Someone said — Decentralized social-media is also an opportunity to make a better advertising system. Block bad advertisers. Allow good advertisers. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 20:27:00 Someone pointing out that — even though it is popular to hate cryptocurrencies nowadays — there are some places in the world where a person's only practical option to receive an international payment is cryptocurrencies. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 20:31:34 Using signatures to address deep-fake. As evidence that, for example, a video actually came from a camera. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 20:33:54 Person from https://stream.place/ talking. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 20:37:47 I mentioned #GreatApe |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 20:51:22 . @pfrazee.com mentioning that AWS will pull your account if you do not respond quick enough to copyright claims. Even when the claims are BS claims from trolls. Doesn't matter the time of the day or the day or the week. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 22:04:55 In room with @darius talking, for his discussion. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 22:14:06 |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 22:16:57 . @blaine : Bluesky and Fediverse are going to end up with very, very similar protocols, as they each fix their problems. They are both already talking about bringing in things from the other. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 22:18:03 . @darius : Bluesky seems like it is getting an inbox / outbox style architecture — just like the Fediverse. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 22:19:46 |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 22:21:02 . @darius : One problem with ActivityPub is that — it doesn't actually say anything about federation. And, different Fediverse software does it differently. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 22:42:05 Medien: 1 |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 22:50:50 |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 23:02:46 |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 23:08:45 @evan my point is there are no rules of the road for how content should be sent around the network. It's how you get phenomena like "boost leaking" that can get around blocks |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 23:41:51 @darius I think the current best practice is to only use inclusion by ID for the `Announce` activity, for this very reason. But I agree that the public-except-unpublished-denylist access mode is really hard to make work right. I also think there are trade-offs between the efficiency of sending activities with lots of data, and the level of control when sending minimal activities. I have a long section about this in my book, but it might be good to include guidance in the Primer or the next AP. |
|
Föderation EN So 23.03.2025 23:42:17 @evan agreed! |
