hhmx.de

Richard MacManus

Richard MacManus (@ricmac@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 17:55:47

Must-read post about on Mastodon. Has made me adjust my own take on this issue. -> "Mastodon is not Google or any other full-text engine, nor should it be. It is a platform for community and conversation. Just as conversations do not echo in an enclosed space forever, conversation search should be somewhat ephemeral."
researchbuzz.masto.host/@resea

Jeff C. 🇺🇦

Jeff C. 🇺🇦 (@jeff@indieweb.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 18:18:06

@ricmac @tchambers Hashtags are a terrible hack to work around a lack of reasonable search functionality.

They clutter up posts, it’s easy to forget to use them, you frequently have to post using multiple conceptually-identical hashtags, you frequently have to search multiple conceptually-identical hashtags, etc.

If people want more privacy controls to control search visibility, we should just implement them in a thoughtful way. Not pretend half-baked search is actually good.

Brian Dear

Brian Dear (@brianstorms@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 18:19:36

@ricmac

And that is why Mastodon is stuck at 15 million accounts, only a fraction of which are active in any meaningful sense.

The lack of search functionality, blocked by a purist ideology held by another fraction of the user population, may be elegant (in the nerdy Linux sense) but it is an architectural form of pre-crime censorship and control, which has had clear and obvious effects on the “community” and on these so-called “conversations,” turning Mastodon into a fast-moving river.

Eugen Rochko

Eugen Rochko (@Gargron@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 18:41:46

@brianstorms @ricmac Which functionality is lacking? Can you give an example of a search query and how the results differed from your expectations?

Brian Dear

Brian Dear (@brianstorms@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 19:16:18

@Gargron @ricmac

Oh, anything? Everything? Like, for example, I see something in the fast-moving river, and ten minutes later I think, I shoulda clicked on that link, and I try to search for it but no, it be gone, gone, gone, down the river and over the digital waterfall.

Search is always the single most consistent, most predictable, disappointment in Mastodon. In fact its lack may be the only disappointment in the overall Mastodon experience since I joined in 2017.

I wish it were not so.

Eugen Rochko

Eugen Rochko (@Gargron@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 19:26:23

@brianstorms @ricmac Not having enough search results for a specific query is not the same thing as there not being a search function, which exists since 2023.

Brian Dear

Brian Dear (@brianstorms@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 19:32:15

@Gargron @ricmac

As a user I don't care how search functionality is implemented on the back end. I search, and as a user I get nothing, or very little. All I get is the confidence that Mastodon didn't find what I *know* is out there. And that's because of the policy decisions that were built right into the design and architecture, right into the DNA of Mastodon, decisions which essentially guarantee a disappointing search experience for users, regardless of how beautiful the code is.

(Medien: 1)

Richard MacManus

Richard MacManus (@ricmac@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 19:41:29

@brianstorms @Gargron Mastodon does have search (including non-hashtag), but users have to opt into it. And yes that is by design. There are pros and cons to that, and relatively few people have opted in so far. But there is a valid reason why that decision was made.

Eugen Rochko

Eugen Rochko (@Gargron@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 19:42:32

@ricmac @brianstorms 154k people have opted-in to search. That's fewer than the 878k that have opted in to being featured in discovery algorithms, but I think it's not as few as some people might think.

Mike Macgirvin 🖥️

Mike Macgirvin 🖥️ (@mikedev@fediversity.site)

Föderation · Do 20.06.2024 22:51:21

As is often the case, the streams repository provides a completely different vision of how to implement search in the fediverse and how permissions actually work in a decentralised/federated infrastructure.

In short, I can't stop you from searching for anything in the privacy of your own home. It's physically impossible. I can only stop you from searching for something on my server.

https://fediversity.site/help/develop/en/Federated_Search

Eugen Rochko

Eugen Rochko (@Gargron@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 19:41:34

@brianstorms @ricmac Search on Mastodon is opt-in because that's how the community wanted it. If certain authors are missing in your results, I suggest approaching them and asking to consider opting-in. I happily use search to find stuff every day.

Brian Dear

Brian Dear (@brianstorms@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 20:36:16

@Gargron @ricmac

Let’s stipulate that all these facts are accurate.

But I’d postulate that by making search opt-in, search is pretty useless.

Also it has hurt discoverability, and to compensate, put awkward burdens on individual users who stuff their toots with character-count-wasting hashtags in an effort to boost discoverability.

And I’d argue the Network Effect, so crucial to helping social neworks grow and thrive, has been weakened on Mastodon in large part by the search policy.

Brian Dear

Brian Dear (@brianstorms@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 19:22:23

@Gargron @ricmac

Put another way:

If I search, I want to search *MASTODON* as in the whole damn thing. Across all instances. With sorting ability--relevance, by date/time, etc.

If there are "blocked" or "hidden" results, I wanna see a count of them as in "Here are 1834 matching results, including 920 redacted results" with an explanation as to why they're redacted, as in, by individual user choice, or by instance policy.

This place needs TRANSPARENCY.

Graham Downs

Graham Downs (@GrahamDowns@mastodon.africa)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 18:30:47

@ricmac I guess it depends on your primary reason for using social media (any social media). In my case, I mostly use it to share interesting articles and other things I find, and in that case, I absolutely want those posts distributed as far as possible, and to be able to be found by as many people as possible, for as long as possible.

I seldom use it to have actual conversations with people, but if you do, then I can kind of see your point. But in that case, I'd rather recommend that you enable automatic post deletion after a certain period of time. I know how frustrating it can be when someone interacts with a reply I wrote like six months ago. For those, I think they should become redundant after a few days, max.

Now, what would be really nice is if you could set post deletion on a case-by-case basis. Then I'd have most of my posts never expire, but my replies to controversial debates and things expire after three days. :-)

Eugen Rochko

Eugen Rochko (@Gargron@mastodon.social)

Föderation EN Do 20.06.2024 18:38:37

@ricmac @Researchbuzz This is outdated or misinformed. Mastodon has had full text search capabilities for quite some time now.